00:00 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

That's kind of how we always do it. So that'll be perfect. All right. Let me hit the record button here. Michelle, thank you so much for being on this episode of Riving Coaches. I'm excited for our conversation today.

2:31 - Michelle

Well, thank you, Laura, for inviting me. I am excited as well.

2:34 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

And let's see where it goes. Yeah, exactly. So tell our listeners a little bit about what you do.

2:43 - Michelle

Yeah, so it might be a little bit different. So it might share some opportunities that might be out there in the coaching world. I actually started a nonprofit organization called Unbridled Change back in 2008, and it's taken on many different forms. And it's really Grown with me, which I always encourage for coaches to let happen, because sometimes, you know, we need ourself in there. And so it started off originally, it's always been a health and a wellness organization. And it started off with a really strong mind body approach, because that was where I was at in my own personal journey, and mostly through what's called equine partnered psychotherapy and coaching. And so we worked with both sides of the equation, the psychotherapy side, and then I had a coaching arm that went with it. And it really evolved as I became more willing to answer that calling that that that special thing that goes with each and every one of us to really expanding into that true holistic practice. So I came out of what I like to call the woo woo closet that I had been hiding behind the science shield with.

And said, Okay, people, so let's really mind, body, soul or spirit. Whichever one fills, floats people's boats. And really, truly, if we want to move the needle and to really get my clients to where they were wanting to go, I had to be willing to step outside and allow them to see the full part of me because I was only ever coaching them through 50% of what it is that I had to offer and trying to figure out how to backdoor these other things.

So I was stopping clients from being able to really have that full integration and practice because I was only willing to step in so many waters.

And so that's really the progression that's happened with my practice over, well, now close to like 20 years of being a coach is just really taking in that willingness to be in that full journey ourselves.

And therefore, we can now offer that to our clients. And ultimately, that's what I'm up to with my coaching practice.

Or the psychotherapy side of it is to help clients be able to move from love. not fear, and really open up to authentically leading and loving and a living, like engaging, living their life, their authentic life, free from that restriction of that conditioned self.

So that's what I'm up to on the coaching side. And there's reasons as to each piece and how it unfolded.

But yeah, that's what I do.

5:23 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Oh, that's fantastic.

I have, I have questions that I'd love to be able to kind of pick a few things apart there. So we can understand even more, right? As coaches, geek out about this stuff. Equine therapy, or working with horses. I was raised a city girl, my friend. It was a rural city. So I know what horses are. I've seen them.

5:53 - Michelle

Uh, but Pretty pictures of them.

5:56 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Right. Yeah, exactly. I, well, and I, I'm right. We would go To like the trail riding place at the, you know, the place that we vacationed on. So I've been on horses, but not really understood. I don't understand. In fact, I have a healthy, respectful fear of horses, realistically, because I don't understand them. And I see my horse friends, and I have a lot of horse friends in my life, who can look at them and understand what they're thinking, understand what they're going to do next. And I don't have that knowledge, and for as big as they are, I'm like, I'm just going to stand back here, because I don't know what they're going to do next. You guys see things differently. Tell me, though, how horses can help in therapy and coaching?

6:57 - Michelle

That's probably a really broad question. It is a broad question. But I'll try to hone it in. I like to say that everything that I teach, because now at this point, Unvital Change has grown to where I have the arena, quote, work, and then off arena.

7:13 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

So I work with clients from all across the world and in coaching spaces that are not, quote, arena-based with the horses in person.

7:21 - Michelle

But they're very much a part of my team. So they come with me energetically, know, fill in the how you want to deal with that on your own.

So they're very much a part of it. But everything I've learned about stepping into our true self and also what separates us from that, I actually learned from horses first.

So the quick story is that the reason why I put horses into this is because they were a huge part of my own healing journey.

When I was 13, I was bit by a mosquito. I was already a rider. I loved horses. My mom actually put me in with horses.

Really early on at like six years old.

8:02 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

And I was a barn rat. was the person that showed up. We didn't own horses or anything like that.

We were in a suburb of DC as well, but she grew up on military basis. So they have horses.

8:13 - Michelle

But she put me in writing lessons because I had really severe ADHD and dyslexia and a couple other learning disabilities or neurodivergent kind of qualities that really, they said, hey, you either got to put her in something structured. So like horseback riding or martial arts, my mom picked horseback riding. And so that's kind of how it originally started was to help my brain like focus because when you're sitting on top of a horse, can't be like, oh, you got to kind of pull it in. And so that was the original intent behind horses in my world. There wasn't a therapeutic riding barn at the time that existed. But when I was 13, I was bit by a mosquito. wasn't mosquito at this barn that had equine. And encephalitis, and it transferred to me. So I ended up having viral encephalitis, and the brain was swelling, and the lining of my brain was swelling in. At the same time, it dominoed into viral spinal meningitis. So then my brain stem itself was also struggling in a lot of bad shape. So my brain and my nervous system became a very unhappy place. I ended up slipping into a coma from that, and was in a coma for seven days. When I woke up, I was deaf, and I was blind. I was paralyzed from the middle of my back down. But the biggest thing, you know, of one being 13 and being deaf, blind, and paralyzed, that's a bit of a problem. But the bigger thing that really impacted me was I had zero memory. I was completely wiped clean. So I didn't have any reference points to who was Michelle. I didn't have any reference points to... What a human was, what a table was, what any, there was no differentiation or labeling that we all, and conditioning, as it turns out, that we all get in those early stages. Even the sinking into the rhythms of our family that happens in utero, all of that was gone. All of that was like blown up in a disorganized system. And the result was a very animalistic survival response that really kicked in. I couldn't run because I couldn't move my body. I didn't even know I had a body. So the idea of fleeing wasn't there. I tried fighting back just instinctually. But again, I had no ability to do anything. I didn't understand that what looked like shadows to me were doctors and nurses. Sure. And I had, my head was in a halo. And so, you know, they had to restrain me. And so then I couldn't fight back and I couldn't move my body. And so I went to the only place left in my nervous system, which is a complete freeze. Like. Complete dissociation. And I just would go out into the void. People would say, oh, well, did you go to your happy place? I didn't have a happy place because I had no sense of self. You know, so I had no construct of this is what made me happy or this is what it was. So I was basically an angry, in pain, pissed off teenager that didn't know what I was and didn't care what you tried to bring to me because I didn't know you and I didn't understand that care was trying to be given to me. So I just either was in a state of fight, which I always lost. And so I just learned to freeze. So I was that body that you could move. You could put your hand on top of mine and I would let you move it and do whatever you wanted to do. But there was nobody home. I wasn't interacting with things until the pain was so bad in my body that I would just kind of wail. And that was that was my world for the first like six months post coma. And my parents were grasping at. And they thought, well, we don't know what else to do. She does PT and OT, but I wasn't there. Again, if somebody moved my body to get me to move my wheelchair, I would do it. But the minute they let go of my hand, there was no internal drive to do anything. And so they decided to, the one thing she loved and the one thing she liked was horses. And so they convinced my riding barn at the time, which was this three-day eventing hunter-jumper barn, and not a therapeutic riding barn in any way, shape, form, or fashion, to let me come out. And here's this girl in this wheelchair who's deaf and blind and doesn't interact with anybody. But something very interesting happened when I went to the barn for that first time. And I actually had like a familiar feeling where I hadn't had a familiar feeling with anything, whether I was at the hospital, moved back into my room, you know. It wasn't anything, but what I later found out through my lovely science shield that I absolutely still love, and I love my frameworks, but we'll talk about why I love my frameworks, because you have a reason. But all of those different things is that scent is on a different neural pathway than our memory. And so it brought forward that feeling of familiarity, that feeling of remembrance when I smelled the barn. And at this point, my sight was somewhat coming back because the swelling had gone down in the visual cortex, which is back here, which is where all the quote-unquote damage was. And so as long as I had a hat on and those like aviator glasses with the sides and, you know, like it was somewhat make out things. If you've been into a barn, they're kind of dim, you know, like the stalls don't. The center aisle is a little dim. So it was perfect for me. Because there wasn't the light there hurting my eyes and causing me to not be able to differentiate. So I could make out the shadows better, kind of like shades of gray, is how everything kind of looked to me, like bubbly kind of weirdness. But four stalls down on the left, there was what looked like this beautiful, energetic, golden highlighter to me. Because at that point, my other senses had kicked in to compensate for the physical senses that weren't there. So in real life, he was a dark bay horse, but I saw him through my, quote, energy eyes. And he was a beautiful golden bean. And he popped his head out, and I wanted to go to him. That was the first time I had felt a desire, like that magnetic connection, like, I want to go to you. I don't know why I want to go to you, but I'm, and I picked up my hands and did what they've been trying to make me to do for six months, which was take that wheelchair and roll it down. And it slammed into the stall door and it was a Dutch door so he could put his head up and over.

15:05 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

And it should have scared him.

15:08 - Michelle

It should have kicked him out. Here's this high strung jumper, horse, you know, and a wheelchair and all those noises and slamming in metal into the door. But he didn't. Instead, Laura, he put his head up and over top of me, moved into my back, pulled me in, and I reached for the first time since post-coma, I reached for another beam. And I reached as far as I could to just pull him into me. And for me, that was like eternity that we were that way. But it was probably not very long. But it was the first time I was willing to connect. It was the first time I was willing to open. It was the first time I was willing to not feel broken. Because everywhere else that I was with, I felt broken because these people kept wanting things from me. You know, the. The PTOT wanted me to be able to walk or to move my body. My family wanted me to remember, you know, everybody I could feel, even though I couldn't hear them at this point, I could feel that pull that was on my system to be something I wasn't. And I didn't know who that was. And I couldn't give it to them. But this beautiful horse and his name is Schedule. He just wanted me just as I was in that moment. And that's why horses, because when a horse is able to be free to share, they don't have all of those different pieces on board that we as humans do all those labelings, all those distinctions, you need to have the right, you know, hairdo or the right this or the right that or wow, you were really out of control yesterday, but you're nice. You know, like it's they are willing to meet us as we are, as long as we're willing to say, I don't want to try to do any harm to you. So I can be upset or mad when I was with him. As long as I didn't direct it at him or take it out on him, he would just hold space for that and be in that place with me. And when I kind of would figure it out and walk my way through, this is all without words because I didn't start having words until about a year, two years post coma, then he would start walking again. And so through working with him, I really started to map parts of me that were never allowed anywhere else. And I think that that's one of the huge gifts that the equine partner work taught me was how to hold space for the parts of us that are really scary to other people. They view them as broken or wrong. And it's like, how do we meet them with love, with compassion, and help tend to them, help answer those unspoken needs or fears or confusions? And how do we help them come home? Right? And horses give us an opportunity to really welcome those parts of us, but we can do that in any space. It's just that sometimes I was too shut down in the human world. I'm sure the people around me were offering me that, but it was too much. Too much of the source of my trauma was them. And so doing that with a horse was something I was able to accept more easily. And that's also one of the things I've found with my clients. I like to say now I'm the schedule for other people. I bring that support in for them. But he kind of was my first mentor and teacher in what I call the art of sacred witnessing.

18:40 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Yeah, that is so cool. Thank you for sharing that story. Because it makes a lot of sense to me. I have two sons. I have a 20-year-old son and I have a 16-year-old son. And The 16-year-old and I are very similar endotypes, like we just kind of get each other in this really natural way. We're very close on the endotype chart to each other. And the 20-year-old and I are a little further away on the chart. So we process information differently. We energetically work differently. There's just a difference. And the things that my 20-year-old has been through and has witnessed are different than what the 16-year-old really observed and witnessed in his life. That is all to say that my 20-year-old, when he gives me a hug, wants something from me. Like, he's not asking me for it. But energetically, he is trying to take when he hugs. And my 16-year-old is just there. Just present. With me. And my 20 year old and I have had a conversation about it, like a few conversations about it. And he's not able to articulate the thing that he wants, right? He's not able to say like, this is what I want. But, you know, he, I forget what it was the other day, he was like going through something or we had an intense conversation. And he was like, can I give you a hug? And we're very physically right, we hug each other all the But he needed a hug in that moment. And I, and at, in that moment, I said, are you giving or taking right now? And he said, oh, giving. Great. Then the answer is yes. But in that moment, I was fragile enough and could feel myself in just this fragile enough space to know that I, I couldn't, I didn't. Want to have a, which, right, which that doesn't feel good. If you have a hug from somebody who doesn't really want to hug you, it's not going to give you anything.

21:08 - Michelle

It's going to leave you actually, like, trying to take even more.

21:13 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Yeah, or making up a whole unconscious story in your head about stuff. So I can, in a different way, I've had an embodied experience of what you're talking about. On a much smaller scale. So thank you for sharing your story. It's a powerful, powerful story. That's huge. And you already started back when you were 13 years old to have an experience of your energetic and spiritual self. Tell me about trying to keep that not a part of your work. And now how you integrate it into your work. Um, cause, cause finish up that story. Like how do you put that little bright light under a basket?

22:07 - Michelle

Well, um, so I, because I couldn't hear people, I thought I was having all these conversations. Um, and I thought I was talking and communicating with people and all of these things. And I was, I was just doing it on a different level. I didn't know that for sure. I had some inklings of it as my eyesight started to come back. My hearing came back a little bit, but not a lot. So they were starting to teach me the sign. Um, and that's a whole thing. Cause you don't have labeling. So it's like, what's an apple? Okay. You can show me the sign for a cookie, but I don't know what that means. You know, so it it was a whole situation. Um, but I became a parrot. So what I started to do was listen to people's different aspects of themselves. And I would just pair it back. What I heard, um, in a different kind of. And so people thought I was having conversations, but really all I was doing was parenting back pieces of what they wanted me to say and what they wanted me to do. So I just became a master, not even chameleon, like a puppet to like your son where you asked that question before, I bet you, you just would have responded. He gave your request.

23:24 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

You want a hug, you get a hug, right?

23:27 - Michelle

And a part of him, in essence, was kind of pulling a little bit of a puppet. Like, this is what I want her to do. And this is what you were willing to do, because some part of you was conditioned to do that, right? And that's a survival response. Everybody has it. It's nothing to be like upset or even blame the other person with, because this is what we do with each other all day long. Until one of us kind of wakes up and says, hey, I have choice here. have freedom, like you did, with saying, pause, a beautiful way. Which one is this? Because you knew what your system would do. If you gave to a take, it would have gone bad for you and bad for him and it would have just compounded. But if he was willing to give and you were willing to give and both receive together, that's a whole different ball of wax, right? Well, I just learned from survival to parrot the parts of people that wanted something. And most of the time, those are their survival selves. It's not really their heart leading the way. So when I figured out that my empathic skills were what I was using was when I was sitting at a friend's house about a year later. And this is when it went to ground. This is when I covered it up. we were sitting in a breakfast nook and we were eating and she lived right really close to me. So it was easy for me to get there because at that point I was kind of using a walker because with riding the horse three times a week, my legs were starting to come back. It was beautiful. I have full use of my body now. And, uh, but, uh, In this situation, I was sitting there, the cat, the family cat threw up. I thought I heard the mom ask, why is the cat throwing up? I heard the cat answer with the divorce. And so I was a little parrot. I didn't know what the word divorce meant. I didn't know any of that. So I just, in the middle of scooping up my cereal, was like, because of the divorce. And I just kept eating because I didn't know that that was anything wrong with that. Well, I lit up that little breakfast nook. And the dad was like, what? And the mom dropped what she was doing. My friend hit me. And at that point, I still didn't have super catch. So I fell over. And I'm like, what? What did I say? And that's the moment when I realized, because they started, who did you tell? What did you tell? And I was like, the cat said it. She's like, Michelle, what are you talking about? The cat can't talk. And I'm like, oh, my world is a. A different world than the world around me. And I went to ground. I was like, okay, I'm not going to parrot anything. So I kind of went mute for a little bit more, you know, and my physical realm had to catch up. Luckily, within about a year, my hearing, we were traveling out west, going up and down some of those mountains out there that I'm in the East Coast. And so like their mountains and our mountains are kind of different. And it broke up the scar tissue and all this gunk, it was gross, came out. But all of a sudden, it wasn't like I was hearing underwater, which I literally was hearing through all that swelling and that trapped fluid. And so I was able to take speech and catch up that way and started to recognize, oh, wow, people don't say half the stuff that's going on in their world. And so it was a really overwhelming. The human world didn't match to me. It was like their system would say one thing. They would do another. I would watch their protective mechanisms like push back their heart. That was always talking to them, always trying to share with them. And I realized that there was no way for me to have transparency with the humans around me because it just didn't have a place. I got sick in 1990. So this recovery is happening in like 95, like brain science. That was the thing back then, right? It was just hitting fire. And so that's why I picked up the science shield because I could say, hey, your nervous system is doing X, Y, and Z. And people are like, oh, yeah, that is what, and yes, that is what's happening. But why was their nervous system doing that? It was running off of a protective program. And so I brought in attachment work and all these other different ways that I could talk about what I was witnessing, quote, behind the scenes and these different aspects of them. But without talking, but without I was getting ready to roll out this whole certification program for Equal Partner Psychotherapy and Coaching and Standalone Coaching. It was in 2016. And I remember I was walking into the arena. I had this whole list of people coming from all around the world. And I was like, yeah, I'm doing it. And I heard, Michelle, you are only teaching 50%. And I was like, it's fine. People don't want the other 50%. They only want mind-body. That's all they want. And then it was like, Michelle, and you know what, Laura, halfway through that training, I started losing my voice. By the time we were done, I could barely talk. And I 100% knew it was because I wasn't allowing myself to be authentic. And by not allowing myself to be authentic, I was holding back everybody in that arena who came to learn from me and who wanted to teach and to do and to offer. Her services of what they could feel that I created, but I was only giving them half the playbook. You know, I wasn't giving them the whole, what I now call the bridge of connection and bringing that in of how do we build a relationship between our body's wisdom? How do we befriend the mind instead of telling the ego that it's a bad thing? No, I've run without an ego. That's a bad thing. I call it the abuse years. You know, it was bad news bears because if you don't have a sense of self and somebody says, this is how you can be my friend and all you're being driven by is I want to be accepted and not shunned, guess what you do? So there were tons of abuse that happened to me both willingly and because I put myself in inappropriate situations, then just trying to numb it all out, right? And so that 13 to like mid-20s, that was a scary situation for this Michelle and luckily she made it through, but by grace. And so that is hiding the holistic side of me, hiding that intuitive coach part of me and that empath, and also then teaching people how to work with the fact that we're all intuitive, like we all have this. And I was leaving people at a deficit of like how to work with their nervous system because it was only working with a part of it and not with all these other aspects of them, befriending the body, befriending the mind, opening up to that wisdom of the heart. And once I took a little bit of a two by four to the head to get me to say yes to that, but since I said yes to that, we're now cooking with grace, as I like to call it. And, and yeah, it's just a whole nother ball of wax.

30:51 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Like, so I don't even care if any of the listeners enjoy this podcast anymore. Those of you who are listening, thank you for listening. Because I think you will. But you are utilizing, so to let the listeners in, right? Michelle is an interpreter Endotype. I am an interpreter Endotype. So they're at our core. There's these design models that are very, very similar for us. Very different life models, right? So there's our design and then there's our life experience. So we turn into unique humans. However, you're using language that I already use in the Endotype Formula system. This protection and possibility. So I talk about the two sides of us. There's a protection side and a possibility side. And they integrate. They're supposed to integrate. But most of the time, we call the protection side of us bad, evil, nasty. Those are the imposter syndromes and the, right? That negative voice inside your head and the saboteur that you need to overcome, block out, push away.

32:00 - Michelle

No, you need to prepare.

32:30 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Because it's connected to the hero archetype of ourselves, the internal family system that's connected to hero. So it needs to go out and have its little heroic adventure and do it all wrong for a long time and learn along the way and figure it out. But even the fact that you lost your voice as you were talking, because that hero part of ourselves that's connected to voice in my system, right? They each have a unique name, and it's called the Samurai. And the best way that I can explain it, it's because we cut through the BS, right? And because that part of us that's connected to our voice is all about service also, because that was a big thing for the samurais also. So here you are trying to be of service, but only doing it 50%. And it's like, never mind, you don't get to use this part anymore until you're going to do things our way. Thank you.

33:28 - Michelle

That is exactly what it did.

33:30 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

It was like, nope, no talking for you.

33:33 - Michelle

just turns it down.

33:35 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Yeah, absolutely. You know, that's that. So the Endotype Formula, it's doing a lot of what you're talking about, you help your clients with. Because it many of the other personality profiling systems that are out there see us as or test us and define us by one thing. Myers-Briggs says... Here's how you think. And Enneagram talks about our motivations or our feelings. And there are lots and lots of other things out there. But the fact is, we are thinking, energetic, feeling, and physical beings. We are all of that. And so the Endotype Formula, it's the formula of how all those parts of us go together in our unique design. So interpreters go together different than a visionary Endotype or a captain Endotype. And it's why in four-question assessment, we can get such clarity on the profiles. Because we're not talking about, here's some things you think, here's some ways you think differently. It's like, here's your beingness. So I love that. I love what you're talking about and what you're doing. And especially with some Backgrounds in some neurodivergent. My 16-year-old is on the autism spectrum. And I know he gets people at an energetic level. Because I can walk into a room and he will turn to me and say, what is wrong? And I will say, right? Like, because his children shouldn't have to deal with adult problems. And I'll say, nothing. And he's like, nope. And he's been that way since he was little.

35:28 - Michelle

Yeah.

35:29 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Or he'll just try. He'll be out in the living room. I'll be back in my bedroom. And he'll just show up with a bottle of water and a snack. Because that's all he knows how to do to help me feel better, which will in turn help him feel better. Because he's connected to that energeticness that I'm feeling right now, too. So, yeah. What coolness. Must be happening in your world and with your clients. So how are you working with your clients at this point?

36:06 - Michelle

Yeah, so at this point, it's, it's, I still have the arena piece, and I probably will have it for as long because horses have been such a huge part of it. But not everybody likes horses. Not everybody lives in Roanoke, Virginia. Not everybody can afford to come out and do an immersion or something like that. And so the horses, right around the time of 2016, were like, Michelle, it's time to come out from behind the horse, get out of the closet, and present yourself as a spiritual health and wellness coach. And I was like, yeah, no, that's not happening. And they were like, yeah, it is. And I was like, no, that's not really happening at all. Back and forth, couple of, you know, a little bit, a little bit of time. And yeah, so now the probably the largest part of our organization is through this doorway of holistic health and wellness. And so I'm also an archetypal consultant through Carolyn Mace. I'm a reiki energy master and teacher and even energy medicine practitioner. Again, I pulled in everything that I could do to try to hide in somebody else's model, right? And somebody else's system and somebody in like interpret it and mash it together and be like, here you go. And so I still use all those tools because they each have a beautiful way in which they support people and work with people. But ultimately, it is through the framework that I developed, the bridge of connection. And so I work with clients both individually in small groups and then in larger workshops, immersions kinds of things to really help them. One, you'll like this, find their voice. And then two, really befriend their system and understand that the saboteur isn't the fire breathing dragon that's trying to take you out of the needs. It's actually trying to... Help you look at some of those survival protective patterns like you were talking about, understand them, and help release them. Be like, this no longer needs to be a part of my world. So the saboteur is actually a guardian of our power. And when we can flip and start to work with it that way, all of a sudden we start to ask ourselves those beautiful questions that you were talking about. How do we get from that protective side over into this passion side? Over into what it is that we want to ignite and to experience and feel, touch, see, hear, know, you know, and bringing those pieces together. So that is pretty much what I do. I bring my full bag of tricks with me into every session. So if it is, you know, that we need to work with some, I'm a five elements traditional Chinese medicine practitioner as well. So I work with acupressure points, which work from a distance because there is no. So whatever it is that that mixes, you know, I think that that's the beauty of a coach is we can bring a toolbox to us and we're not locked in. And so we can, while we have our frameworks and our methods that we do try to help support moving the client through whatever it is they're wanting to give birth to, we can be flexible and meet them where they're at and really enjoy that journey. So I love what I do because it's different every single time. You know, it's like I show up in that session, I have an idea, but also it's really going to be guided by what it is that that person's system asks for and wants support with working with. So, yeah, that's that answer your question or did I get off in the weeds?

39:51 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I love it. So the one on one sessions done in a distance. I'm assuming you're doing over Zoom are the group. Group programs that you're doing and some of the group collabs, is that virtual also, or are you moving around the country and doing some group session stuff?

40:10 - Michelle

Right now, it's virtual, and that is for a couple of reasons.

40:16 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

One, for, you know, just ease of travel expenses.

40:20 - Michelle

My kids are now starting to get into, one of them's going to be a senior next year, the other one's going into middle school. So now they're at that age where I hope to start adding in. You're speaking what I want to bring in in 2016, which is some of different immersions and workshops at different places, whether that's with horses or without horses. I'm also releasing, launching, I'm just in the pre-launch of a beautiful new Oracle suite, which includes two new books and an Oracle deck. That brings this to, it's like having me in a box. So, yeah, that more people can be able to access this and integrate it. So like it would match and you already have heard how it matches everything that you're doing. And to me, that's also a sign of something that is heart based, that you can allow it to support and integrate and be an adjunct to whatever it is that you're doing. And this comes in and just helps deepen everything. And so the Sacred Witness Oracle is a beautiful set of three tools. It's my second book, Trauma-Informed Enlightenment, and then the Oracle Deck and Guidebook, which each have somatic-based things. That's just so amazing. I love it. And so I think that that's what 2016 will be for me is launching that, doing immersions, and relaunching the certificate program. This time, all open.

41:50 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. That's awesome. I think by the end of the year, I will have a certificate or licensing. program for the Endotype Formula also. I'm working on, I got the creative nudge or the creative green light. I've had the nudge for a long time. But the green light that it is time to build the tools that will go directly to the coaches and the training to be able to help the coaches know how to use the Endotype Formula inside of their own business. And so I'm not, I don't know. The nudge shows up, but the timeline doesn't. So I just stay open to, okay, this is what I know to do now. I know the next few steps and the destination where we're going. How long it takes. That's on the different, that's, I call it the divine timeline.

42:49 - Michelle

And every time I try to mess with that side of the equation, you know, I end up just like struggling and like that little cartoon of a person running in place. And so I've learned very, you know, I think I heard you. Years and years ago, a talk by Abraham and Esther Hicks.

43:07 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

I don't know if you know them, but and it was like this placematting and it was like, put on your side.

43:12 - Michelle

What is your to do list? Everything else goes over here. You don't get to move something over, you know, like when it's time, if you have that space and those pauses and those openings for to hear your heart, you'll know when something moves over. And so once I stopped struggling and trying to control this other side over here and I figured it out, I was like, oh, this works so much better. And that's even how the Oracle suite happened. I was only writing my the second book, Trauma Informed Enlightenment. And it kept coming in and said, I want a deck. And I was like, OK, I'll do the deck after I get the book done. And it was like, no, Michelle. And I was like, OK. And then I was like, fine, I'll do the deck and I'll do a quick little guidebook, like a pamphlet. And it was like, OK, that's nice, Michelle. You can. So I downloaded that little sucker in my brain, and I was like, yeah, look at that. I'm done. And then it was like, and now go back and do this with that card, and do this with that card. And now it's a full-blown, beautiful guidebook that stands on its own. And the deck was, so what I thought was giving birth to one product, it turned into triplets. And I didn't plan it. I didn't want to do it. But that's what it wanted to be.

44:31 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Oh, that's so, never has there been a truer statement about our unique body of work. People ask me all the time, like, how did you create the Endotype Formula? Or what inspired you? I didn't want to do it. Like, this was not a plan. This just, the next step kept showing up. And I had, and then there was another question, and the next step showed up, and the answer showed up, and then it became a thing.

45:00 - Michelle

And it was a thing.

45:02 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

So it nailed me.

45:04 - Michelle

It's like, you know, it's spot on.

45:07 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Yes. Yes. It is a good thing. But yes, I and I think that's one of the I did just a solo podcast series recently about your unique body of work, because I think all of us have big purpose driven, exciting things. Some of us that is in the coaching realm. And so for those coaches that have that unique body of work, they're still trying to fit their star shaped self into a beautiful square shaped box. And it's never it's just not going to fit. And so I did this four episode series on on your unique body work and how to start discerning it and what it's going to take and what it's actually going to require. And the last episode is all that Marianne Williams quote, right? It's not our. Darkness that most scares us. It's the light. It's the holy crap. This could be amazing. That really starts freaking us out sometimes. So, so yeah.

46:16 - Michelle

There's quote by her. Yeah. Sorry. There's another quote that goes really beautifully with that. And it's in that book Illuminati. And it's that our job is to say, yes, just what you did. Hear the question. Answer the question. And give us the strength to let go of trying to micromanage. This is my words of hers, but it's in the, it's a prayer. And as you know, that book is a little bit long, but it's like, let go. That job is not yours to say how that will show up, what that will show up as, and who is showing up with it. And as coaches, I think we get stuck on that piece. Like, Oh, where am I going to get the clients from? How am I going to get the clients? How am I going to market to it? And I heard thing. I would wish I could like. Back to it on everything that I do, because every time I go down that road, will this marketing campaign give me what? It's like, no, stop. Come back to that question. Back to the same question that you did when this beautiful formula started coming to you. Just answer the question. How it's going to do, what it's going to do, when it's going to do it, and who it's going to do it with, that is not in your department. It's not above your pay grade. It's just a different department. And so can you trust that that is there, and that's coming in? And that quote, mixed with the one that you just said, is like, that's the formula. To stay out of struggle, right?

47:40 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Yeah. And to find a great marketer. You know, that's one of the main jobs that I have with the coaches that I work with right now, is helping them with their marketing. But, but it's so not the marketer. It is the marketing, and it isn't the marketing at the exact same time, because it's this... It's just what we're talking about here of let's feel into it. And if I can ask them enough questions, if I can ask a coach enough questions, for me, energetically, my intuition kicks on and I can see the pathway. I'm like, oh, there it is. And there's the things along the way. So then I get to ask them if they're ready to do it. Have you thought about doing a master class or have you thought about doing a podcast? Are you speaking yet? Whatever it is that I can see. And usually their response is, well, yeah, I thought about it, but I just don't. And I was like, maybe it's time for us to lean into that a little bit because it starts opening up the door and it moves them further down that path. And it's just one thing after another. And it's scary, which is why we need to have people who. We'll hold the space and do it with us. But most marketers simply want to give you their framework. Well, obviously, you just need to be on TikTok. Like, that's the, right? Like, just be on TikTok. I've been told that. I've never been on TikTok. And that is what everybody thought was going to grow my business. But there was never any energetic alignment for me and TikTok. So I just kept saying no and kept doing the things that were in alignment. So aligned marketing. Yeah, love that too. So this has been a great podcast. And I think you and I could probably sit and have a lot more in-depth chats. But tell our listeners where they can find you. And for those that are interested in your newly launching book and deck, books and deck, where can they find? That also.

50:01 - Michelle

Yeah. So the easiest place is to go to the hub that kind of has everything, which is my website. And it's unbridledchange.org. And that is a direct nod to horses because they're a huge part of me. But it's also if you think about ourselves, we are bridled up by all of these fears and conditions. And like you said, those protective mechanisms that aren't trying to make our life a living hack. They were trying to protect us. And support us. so that's the name of my business is Unbridled Change, meaning we're going to take that stuff off and bring that change in, which is scary, but amazing at the same time. And so and it's a nonprofit. So it's .org. You can go there. You can see all the different free resources I have, my class listing. I have on-demand courses. So there's something for everybody, whether you want to just start free or drop into or a full on-demand course. Or if you want to join me in one of my live upcoming ones. The live upcoming one is one of the ones you mentioned, which I have an Enneagram course coming up in July. But the way I do the Enneagram, I can guarantee you, is not the way other people do the Enneagram because it is not about let me get in my point and stay there. It's about how do I allow that point to be an entry place for me to find me and then open up the whole, because we have all nine aspects. And I do somatic movement and all the other good stuff with it. It's super fun. So if you are interested in a typing system from a perspective, that's not the end of your typing, you can come and join me in the Enneagram circle. But all of that is there. I also have social media. So Instagram, Facebook, YouTube. I have a podcast myself, it's Soulful Practices. And that one is me sharing a quote and a little teaching around it and then a practice with it. So it's definitely designed to, again, support you no matter where you're at in your journey with what that is. And then the launch, you can, it's on Kickstarter and it's the Sacred Witness Oracle. And man, I would, it is just so beautiful. It is a culmination of 20 years of my journey, my journey with clients, and then that framework of building that bridge of connection to those different aspects of us. Because that's my center of brilliance is, because that's what I had to do. Rebuild connection to each one of those pieces because they were severed. So that's what I do. So those are the different places you can find me and just drop in wherever it feels good and explore.

52:48 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Yeah, absolutely. I think we have a lot of those links, but I'm going to make sure that we have that Kickstarter link. And we're going to drop all of that into the show notes for our listeners. Thank you so much for doing the work that you do and for being willing. I just want to honor your journey and your bravery and courage that you showed, first of because you had to, but then that you have continued to show to be able to really step in and do the work that only you can do. Um, it's just been an honor to, to talk to you about all of it and for you to share it with us.

53:33 - Michelle

Oh, well, thank you, Laura, for having me. And right back at you, thank you for you being you, you creating this beautiful platform and your formula to be able to help people better understand themselves and step into their voice. So thank you.

53:46 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Beautiful. Beautiful. That was fun. Oh my gosh. Fascinating. Okay, have you ever heard of a podcast series called The Telepathy Tapes?

54:04 - Michelle

No.

54:06 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Do I need you to look them up? I think it might, it would be, I would love to hear what you think about it. So The Telepathy Tapes are this double-blind experiment that's taking place with autistic kids who are... They don't recognize themselves as nonverbal or limited verbal. They recognize themselves as spellers, right? Because they use a spell board, a spelling board to communicate. And there is this group of people who, and a doctor, who's started to recognize that they are telepathic.

54:58 - Michelle

They are. I can't tell you how many mutes. So people in that category I work with that are not mute. They're not at all.

55:08 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

I'm sorry. Say it one more time.

55:11 - Michelle

So they get labeled as mute, right? But they're actually not. Once you start to help unlock that voice, they have had so many people have start talking who they never thought would ever talk.

55:24 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

They'd only spell. Right. Exactly. And it's a fascinating podcast series of the people that are doing the research. And the lady who initially started the podcast series, she was going to do just a little article or just a little piece as a skeptic, huge skeptic, and then couldn't be a skeptic anymore because she was seeing it. Um, and the, there, the unique. The unique ability that they have and that they're helping other people to have to tune into the collective consciousness. Fascinating, fascinating podcast series. So that it might just be fun. You probably already. I mean, I think just based on. Based on your story and based on your experiences and based on right, the cat talked to you about the divorce, like you've already been there. You already like you already know it. So it might just be interesting for you to hear about other people who already know the thing that, know, but that's a lot of the experience that these people are having. And it's a lot of times the caregiver parents and the speech and language pathologists and the school aides who are experiencing it and who are like, how do you know?

57:00 - Michelle

You know, like these kids are, um, they'll draw on like an image of something that nobody's told them. They try to figure out like, well, this was so-and-so near them when they said, and it's like, no, it's in your aura. It's broadcasting like at a hundredth volume because you're thinking about it so strongly and they're just trying to get out of their head. Yeah, exactly.

57:25 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Or trying to get it into the, into their tummy. The one, there was a, one of the young men, uh, his, uh, his speech and language, whoever it was, had gone out and picked up a treat. Like it was going to be a special event or whatever. And she was like, oh, I don't know. She's kind of just shopping through the, like, oh, I know he likes these. And I know he likes that. And know he likes, and she had three or four items and then whatever. And, and she decided she was going to bring in one of them. Uh, and he was like, he drew out the other three and he's. Like, you know, like, where's the rest? And she's like, what are you? And he was like, go get it. Because he knew she had already gotten it.

58:12 - Michelle

There's so much information in our aura that we don't, I mean, I had to learn how not to shoplift. Like, like, I'm not reading you right now, but I had to learn how to do that.

58:22 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

You know, it's not something, like, at first I was so overwhelmed.

58:26 - Michelle

And I call it shoplifting because that's really what it is. Like, it's like, you go in a store, you only go in, you get what you need. But imagine if you went into the store and you started reading everything. And you started reading even where it came from and what the roads were like of the factory. And that's the level of information.

58:43 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Oh God, that's such a good, well, in a lot of people who are new to discovering their gifts of intuition, and who have more of that style of gift of intuition. You know, like, I love the fact that you call it shoplifting. Because it is a little icky when they're like, oh, I'm getting something from you.

59:09 - Michelle

Let me tell you all about your life.

59:11 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

And I'm like, oh, friend, I don't think I gave you permission to be up in here. I talk a lot about the code of conduct with empaths.

59:19 - Michelle

I'm like, there's a code of conduct. Just because you can read it doesn't mean you should and doesn't mean it's yours to read. Like, don't open people's mail. It's disrespectful.

59:31 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Yes. And even so for myself, right, like in working with coaches and I can, like I told you, like I can all of a sudden see a thing. I can see the path. And, but, and this is where I, you know, or they'll say something that it dings for me. It's the sound of a bell. It's ding. That's brilliant. I know when I hear the ding that this. This is the brilliant stuff. And sometimes it'll be, oh, I have something to add to that, but I have to ask permission, right? Like, you said this thing. Do you mind if we talk more about that thing? I have some questions, maybe some feedback, and right? And if they, yes, then we can go there and we can really start digging in. And when we dig in, and look, because they've hired me to do this thing with them, right? Almost always it is a yes, but it is just, right? You've got to have the yes. Like, let's go there.

1:00:39 - Michelle

And I think that what you're doing is following the thread that their heart and their soul want you to follow. You're not trying to impress them, bring in, like, piece of information about their grandfather's best friend. You know what I mean? Like, you're not sifting. You are saying, bring me the thing. Bring me the thread, and I don't want to see any of the other threads. There's zero reason for me to know anything else. Most intuitive coaches meander out. And so good job of just like having that integrity to let their system bring to you that thread. And the only other really random thing that I wanted to share back when, but it wasn't appropriate, but if I can now, is that I am such a huge proponent. I love that you are honoring your son's emotional depth because that's just what I wanted to say. I just wanted to honor you for that because so many people believe that the spectrum is void of emotion. Like it's a cool, just right. And I'm like, it's the exact opposite. Everything is getting in and everything is there. And the depth that they have within them is would shorten.

1:03:00 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Blessed situation for both of us because we have an ease of communication already and a depth of understanding because our designs are so very similar. So it's been relatively easy for me to be a mom and a guide and all of those things with him and to let him just kind of lead that way and, you know, and he did the therapies that he needed to do. And to tell us when we need to go do our therapy. That's his favorite thing to tell my son and I.

1:03:36 - Michelle

Yeah, I mean, I work with that on the equine partner side all the time is like I try I invite the parents into their work and they're like, that's the problem. And I'm like, that's the solution. They're trying to help you come into a whole nother aspects of you. And that's their gift and their brilliance. But it's uncomfortable and it's. A little bit of an aura buster, you know, energy to it. Not quite samurai, you know, like samurai is kind of precision. I know where I'm going. like these other ones just bust it wide open and just say, okay, what do we want to do with this? How do we want to be different with it? And so, yeah, thank you for your willingness to dive in and do that because I work with families that unfortunately some aren't willing to do that. so it's beautiful that you are. I always like to, when I see it, I'm like, oh, they need a little thank you. Not because you need it, Nina, but because it is a choice and it's beautiful.

1:04:37 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, and I see the moms that struggle with it and I see the parents that struggle with it. I think it's one of the reasons that, you know, my husband was my husband. I call him my husband, the boy's dad. But he was also on the spectrum and we knew that even before Logan. He was born, I think, before my 16-year-old was born. But he was more concerned with what other people thought about that self-diagnosis that he had made. And he probably had a few other things going on. But he so struggled in his relationship and in trying to understand, trying to connect with Logan, I think because he never made peace with where he was at, right? Like he wanted to block that part of his own identity. And when it was so viscerally reflected in his son, he just, it was a challenge. So we've been divorced now for, I think, 10 years, and he hasn't been in the boy's life for like five, which is, right, it carries its own... And at the same time, there's a huge protection for them. Yeah, there's some gifts in there too. Yeah, I will let you go. If you ever, like, if I can be of service to you, I look at your website. So one of the things that I do and one of the things the Endotype Formula does is it predicts brands. I think your website is beautiful. I think there might be some places that branding-wise and language-wise, it could be zhuzhed up to fully represent the amazing coolness that you are and that you offer.

So if that ever seems in alignment and you would like to talk about that, I would love to do a strategy call with you and dive in and just find out kind of what's going on and give you some thoughts. Just as my yay to you. And send me over the Kickstarter link.

1:07:00 - Michelle

Yeah, will send you that. And yeah, so once we get through this Kickstarter campaign, and I start to roll out that next level, it's going to need a refresh. I don't know how to do that. So maybe that's you.

1:07:14 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

That is me. That's what I do all day and all night for coaches is branding messaging in alignment with who you really are. And stretching you into continuing to write, like you had said, come out of hiding, into our marketing. And then our clients just feel us. Like we, the Endotype Formula predicts people energy. We have to take your people energy and we have to put it into design. And when that all happens, then people that are energetically seeking us can find us. And know that we are the person. Well, that sounds good.

1:08:05 - Michelle

That's my goal with this Oracle. I used to be very much more boutique. I didn't want people to find me. And the website you're looking at right now is my hybrid. Okay, you can find me. But I know where it's going is like, okay, here I am. What do you want?

1:08:24 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Yes. Yes.

1:08:27 - Michelle

So, yeah, it's got a road.

1:08:30 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Yeah, you have a story. I'm glad you have a podcast because you have a story to tell. mean, that, holy smokes. Like, right? You can stand pretty much wherever you want and tell that story. And some people are going to lean in. So, anyways. Yeah. You just let me know if you need some help because I'd love an opportunity to show you kind of what I do and see if there's some alignment to work together.

1:08:59 - Michelle

on. off. I wish lie down but these Appreciate that. And yeah, so I will get you those things and I'll take a look at, you send me that link and I'll send you my link and then we'll see where it goes.

1:09:08 - Laura Hulleman (Endotype Formula)

Okay. Sounds good. All right. Thank you. Bye.